"I've never accidentally tripled an invoice relative to my initial bid—so I find that concerning."
08:00
"Just to put everything out in the open air is the best for the city, I believe."
08:00
"I don't need compensation for that—I just want to set the example that it can be done."
17:00
"I think my role may be best served serving the public—that's what motivates me to run."
18:00
"If for some reason I'm not able to get on the ballot, I do plan on running a write-in campaign."
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Giamo Lao: Yep, I'm good.
Chris Coyle: Okay. So if I we're just trying to talk briefly with all candidates in November for city council and Mayor, you're one of them. So do I understand that you would be running a write-in campaign in November?
Giamo Lao: No, I'll be petitioning for signatures to get ballot access. So I should be listed as an independent candidate on the ballot in November.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Okay, so you're gonna run as an independent and you're gonna try to get signatures to get on the ballot. Good enough? Yeah. What, what's your background? Do I gather that you're in it or something similar?
Giamo Lao: Yeah, so I, I took all the computer science electives in high school. I did a little bit of HACC, but I ended up going just for a little online bootcamp, full stack web development, but I also have.
Giamo Lao: Background in construction. I've been working with the Amish since I was 21, so for about six years now. I've, so I have a little bit of the physical side and the technology side.
Chris Coyle: Okay. So you're, I'm not sure how I, how you wanna describe it? You're, you're a self-employed contractor. How would you describe it?
Giamo Lao: Yeah, I do a little bit of everything. I, I have a, a full-time job for a small business. And then I, I also do some, what kind
Chris Coyle: of business is that?
Giamo Lao: It's called Permaculture Pros we mainly build decks, do outdoor,
Chris Coyle: yeah. Construction business. Okay. Yeah. And then, how do you spell that?
Giamo Lao: Permaculture. P-E-R-M-A- and then culture, C-U-L-T-U-R-E.
Chris Coyle: Gotcha. Where are they based at?
Giamo Lao: That would be in, in, on Reistville Road. So like Schaefferstown.
Chris Coyle: Sure. Okay. Okay. Oh, and also I wanna do the most basic thing here. I wanna make sure I get your name right. G-I-A-M-O is your first name, correct?
Giamo Lao: Yeah. It's pronounced ZHEE-ah-MO
Chris Coyle: Giamo. And LAO is your last name, correct? Yes sir. Alright. So did you go to, you must have gone to high school somewhere in the county?
Giamo Lao: Yeah, I went to Cedar Crest. I was in Cornwall, Lebanon, school district. Yeah,
Chris Coyle: sure. And, and so how long have you resided in the city of Lebanon, roughly?
Giamo Lao: I was born at the Good Sam, so minus for about like nine months. When I was seven we were like in Lancaster for a little bit, but we came right back, so pretty much my entire life.
Chris Coyle: Okay. So, no. But you're a city of Lebanon resident right now, correct?
Giamo Lao: Yes, sir.
Chris Coyle: And how long have you I, because, because you said you, you, you went to high school in Cornwall, Lebanon. How long have you resided in the city of Lebanon, roughly?
Giamo Lao: Since basically, like the age of 20.
Chris Coyle: Okay. How old are okay? How old are you now?
Giamo Lao: 27.
Chris Coyle: Okay. So you lived in the city for roughly seven years, give or take, correct?
Giamo Lao: Yeah, on, and I mean, I lived there as a child too, so I've been in the area though.
Chris Coyle: Oh, okay. Okay. So, you posted some stuff on Facebook, I think this is you. And it prompted a response from Mayor Capello. One of the things, That, was this you the first thing was the garage and transit hub downtown, or, or only, or only delayed, or There's a problem there. Was that you
Giamo Lao: Yeah, yeah, I did. I did post my findings when I, I dug into, yeah. That,
Chris Coyle: yeah. So what do you, what do you see as the problem with the Garage and transit hub?
Giamo Lao: Well, I think the, the idea of the RACP grant is to, to benefit the broader community. So Right. So they applied under, like, with these grand plans and then, it, it slowly, it diminished into, you know, just only benefiting basically the city's government. And the, the city as a whole isn't really seeing any benefit.
Chris Coyle: O Okay. If they would've gone through with the garage, which would've been right near city hall. Do you think that would've conferred a benefit on the whole city?
Giamo Lao: The garage itself. Not without bringing in more downtown businesses. I think that maybe HACC, like that HACC building could have sort of functioned as like a more modern version of the Lebanon Valley Mall since the mall's so far out of the city, like it's not in the city. You know what I mean? We could have more businesses in there that would. Yeah, something like that.
Chris Coyle: O okay. The mayor said in her response in 2019. The city applied for 8.8 million in Rack P money for the proposed market square transit intermodal center. That's basically what I call the garage and bus station. Yeah. Is that you or me?
Giamo Lao: I'm not sure what that was.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Which included a parking garage, transit hub, and city hall. And the mayor says they only got $2 million of the 8.8 they applied for, which, which I have verified is in fact True. And so that's why she's saying we had enough to do city hall, but we don't have enough to. Through the intermodal Center. Do you, do you agree with that? Is is she, is she correct about that?
Giamo Lao: Yeah. I never, I didn't ever say, or like I said from the beginning, I didn't deny that we, that we only got the $2 million in grant funding. I'm not sure why she issued her statement in the manner that she did
Chris Coyle: Oh, okay. Okay. I'm just going through these one at a time here. 'cause I wanna make sure I, let me just go back to you now. So,
Giamo Lao: see, you can see her her post, but do you see my original post that I made?
Chris Coyle: Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at everything here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So what's your position if, if, if, if you're elected mayor or during your campaign as far as your platform, what's your position on getting the intermodal transit? Facility going, or don't you want it?
Giamo Lao: I I wanna clarify you, you just said, if I'm elected mayor, I am only running for city council. So I'm, I'm just one seat.
Chris Coyle: I, I, I'm sorry. You're, you're right. I, I, I, I'm, I'm very sorry. I, I was thinking Mayor Capello, right? So if you're on city council though, what would. What, what's your position during your campaign on the future of this so-called Intermodal Transit Center?
Giamo Lao: Well, my, my main problem with the, the whole situation was that a lot of the, the funding went through Arthur Funk & sons, which they chose as the construction manager, which is okay, right. It's technically all within the law and whatnot. Right. I just don't think it's in the best interest of the taxpayer. And then with my digging, I saw that certain things, like some bids were put in and then invoices were inflated and the state had to step in and, and ask why, basically for it to be corrected.
Chris Coyle: I didn't, I didn't see that. How did, what did the state say about inflated invoices? I must have missed that.
Giamo Lao: So in some of my documents, I received in my right to know requests. I got emails. Et cetera, between the everything. So there's, there was for example, one invoice, or there was a, a An estimate put in or a bid put in for, to, to install one in awning. And then on the invoice that they tried to get the city to compensate for, they listed it as three awnings. So I'm not sure how that happened, but that kind of thing isn't really acceptable with public funds.
Chris Coyle: Were they, were they paid for three awnings or was the error caught?
Giamo Lao: The error was caught in that case. I'm waiting for some more requests to see if there, if I can identify any other errors, but yeah.
Chris Coyle: What's the, what's the problem with. Funk. I know who Arthur Funk and Son is obviously. What's, what, what, do you have an objection to them acting as the construction manager as opposed to some other company?
Giamo Lao: No, absolutely not. I, I hear that they're a great company. I just wanna make sure that the tax dollars are being spent effectively and that can't happen unless, you know, we're very transparent about everything.
Chris Coyle: What, okay. How, okay. How would you recommend that city government be more transparent?
Giamo Lao: I think with technology today, it's very easy to put information in the public image. So I mean, I've spent, you know, months filing requests and digging through documents and that, that makes things very difficult for the public to examine. I agree. Yeah. So just to put everything out in the open, out in the open air is the best for the city, I believe.
Chris Coyle: Okay. And it sounds like you would, in order to do that, generally speaking, you would favor. More documents being auto put online and easily accessible to anybody with a computer.
Giamo Lao: Yeah, and I'd be willing to take that burden on my own and upload what I can, what, what we would go through with counsel. But, like, just, just, I don't need compensation for that or anything. I wanna just set the, set the example that it can be done. Because I'm very, you know, ab as you, as you know, I, I've been working with technology for my whole life, basically, so,
Chris Coyle: okay. Have, have you come up with any kind of estimate of what that would cost the city?
Giamo Lao: No. No, I have not. I mean, it doesn't really cost me anything 'cause I, I have my own company, so,
Chris Coyle: yeah. Okay. Okay. So you would do this on a volunteer basis?
Giamo Lao: Yeah. For the time being. Yeah.
Chris Coyle: Oh, let me just see here what else I wanna see here.
One minute.
Hold on a second here.
I'm just trying to get to the right screen. Stand by a second here. Okay.
Okay, she's saying that everything was competitively bid on city Hall and, the so-called Intermodal Trans Transport Center. Do you disagree with that?
Giamo Lao: I do know there was some self-performed work by Arthur Funk & sons, right. I know that they are able to, to select the subcontractors that are allowed to put in bids, so. Right. There's, there's a little bit of room for improvement there as far as I'm concerned.
Chris Coyle: How, how, well, how would you do it differently? In other words, I, I, I was a lawyer for 39 years and I did construction work and construction managers. It seems to me in the projects I've been involved with. Routinely, choose subcontractors, but also do some of the work themselves. So, so what do you disagree with? How Funk did this? I'm just, I'm just asking.
Giamo Lao: Well, let me say something. I, I have a barber. He sees many people and he knows many people working in construction and he says that their companies don't even put in bids anymore because they're always rejected. In favor of Arthur Fun and Sons. So we're not really seeing the, the true face of competitive bidding here in Lebanon city.
Chris Coyle: Oh, okay. So are you saying that the city or others, favor Arthur Funk & Sons and award work even though they're not the low bidder?
Giamo Lao: That could be what's happening. Yeah, but I'm not.
Chris Coyle: Well, okay. I'm asking you do, do you have any evidence that that is what happened? Because that would be a serious problem, don't you agree?
Giamo Lao: I, they were chosen as the project manager. There wasn't a bid put in for that role.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Okay. Alright. I, I understand. Okay. Now she's claiming that, and a, a as I'm, I'm sort of paraphrasing it here, all the audit, all the audits so far that involve city hall and the so-called intermodal transit center. I just call it the damn bus station. But whatever, all of them, have found no material non-compliance or do you agree with that statement?
Giamo Lao: I think that statement is a little bit, it's, it's not, it's a, it's avoiding the point that I made. The point was that the state caught these errors and then the city was forced to correct them. It's not that in that, in finality it was all, it was all good.
Chris Coyle: Okay.
Giamo Lao: But,
Chris Coyle: okay. I mean, isn't, isn't that how audits work? They correct. They, they, they catch errors, some of which. Are what, what I would call non-material, meaning, the auditor says, you did this wrong, correct it. And they do. Others are material like, you know, money is, is not being traced and stuff like that. Yeah. So do, do you think it's unusual that, that the auditors found certain non-material errors.
Giamo Lao: I think the auditors did their job, but I, right. I know working in construction that, I've never accidentally tripled an invoice relative to my initial bid, so I find that concerning. Okay.
Chris Coyle: Okay. So there was, there was an invoice that was triple the amount. Which, which one is that again? That would be,
Giamo Lao: that would be the three awnings when the bid was put in for one awning. Okay.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Somebody said three. A awnings. Oh, awnings. Okay. I know what you mean. Three awnings rather than one. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Alright. Alright. Let me just see here. I'm going down. Taxpayers weren't fully protected. Please publish the outstanding bond schedule operating costs for the new city hall and carry over. Obligations for the still unfunded phase two garage. Alright, so I, I, I, I take it you've tried to get that information through the right to know process, which is understandably slow. Is that right?
Giamo Lao: Yes, it is very slow. They like to take the maximum time permitted.
Chris Coyle: Yeah. Well, I, listen, I'm in the business here. I, I do right to no requests all the time. Everybody takes the 30 days whether they need it or not. It's an abuse, I agree with you. And it's not just the city, but, so you would, again, this circles back to I think our, our earlier point. You would, publish all this, all this information electronically online so that it's more easily available?
Giamo Lao: That is my goal. Yes, sir.
Chris Coyle: Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, that's, that makes sense here. Okay. Okay. So do you think there's any information that the city needs to be keeping. That they're not keeping? Or is it just a, or is it just, is it just a matter of the stuff isn't online, it's buried in a file cabinet somewhere. It takes forever to get it through, right? To know.
Giamo Lao: Yeah. I'm, I'm not sure if there's any missing information. I haven't, I don't have the ability to, I. To, to know that. But I, sure, I do think that it should be in the public eye from the, like, it, it shouldn't be hidden. It shouldn't be obscured in any way.
Chris Coyle: O okay. I mean, you're not, you're not saying the city's doing this on purpose. This is just how they're doing it. They just don't have it online, so it takes forever with Right to know. That's that. I, I, I'll, I'll tell you what, Giamo, that's been my personal experience as a reporter trying to get stuff out of the city and the county and I mean, yeah, they just, they don't, they don't prioritize Right. To no requests. I agree with you there. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. OO okay. Yeah. Alright. That gives me a start here. That gives me a background. Also moving forward, you said, oh, I'm sorry. Put every contract, change order, audit letter, and appraisal in a public portal. Okay. I understand your position there. That makes, that's sensible. Let me just see here. You want all documents to go online within 72 hours of signing. Okay. Alright. Host an open q and a. I'm always ready O [00:16:00] Okay. Okay. Host, host an open q and a. Okay. So you want the mayor to have like a, a, a town hall or something?
Giamo Lao: Yeah. Like her, I mean, she made that post and, and disabled the comments. So that's, yeah, she did. Yeah. That's a very, yeah, she did. Yeah. While also citing transparency.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Oh, okay. Alright. Okay. Have you I, I'm just curious. If you've ever been to a city council meeting and asked the mayor questions because they always have official public comment time, what's your experience been with, with the responsiveness?
Giamo Lao: I have, I have been to a city council meeting. I tend to watch them on YouTube. I would, I would like to explore the, the ability of, you know, opening up public comments without. Your physical presence. I think that's very possible in today's world. And I think it would be for the benefit of the community.
Chris Coyle: okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think that's all, I guess, technologically feasible. Sure. Alright. Let me just, you know, I, I ask everybody this is, is there one incident in specific, or, or one issue in specific that kind of lit a fire on you and motivated you to wanna run?
Giamo Lao: I mean, I, I wonder what to do, like what, what is one's purpose in life? And I feel like with the way my brain works, with, with how I, I constantly overanalyze things and look into things. I'm very skeptical of things. I think that my role may be best served, serving the public. So that is what motivates me to run.
Chris Coyle: Sure. Okay. I understand that. Yeah, that's, that's good. That's helpful and I appreciate your talking to me on a Sunday morning. Is there anything else you wanna say before we get off here?
Giamo Lao: Not at the moment. I do have a website, I'm sure that you'll, you can include it in your Yes, sir. Yeah,
Chris Coyle: I got it here. Okay. Yeah, I got it. I've looked at it. Yep. Okay. Okay. That is basically it. So you will be attempting to get on the November general election ballot as an independent candidate for city council?
Giamo Lao: Yes, sir. I'm, and I'm sure, my every signature will be analyzed. So if, if, if for some reason I'm not able to get on the ballot, then I do plan on running the write in campaign.
Chris Coyle: How many sig, I'm just curious, how many signatures do you need to get on the ballot?
Giamo Lao: I believe it's either two or 3% of the max votes. So it would be, Brian Martin, he had about, I think 1500 votes. I probably need about 50 or 60 to be safe, I think.
Chris Coyle: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I, I don't know. I, I always have to look that up. Alright. Hey, thanks for talking to me. Have a good rest of Sunday.
Giamo Lao: Thank you. You enjoy the rest of your weekend as well.